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12 comments

Comment from: doctorrad [Member] Email
Amen. I write stuff that solves problems, and I also write stuff that takes input and produces output. I feel lucky that I can do this without any degree of excessive clusterfuckedness from anyone.

My primary platform? VBA in Excel. Before that, C, Fortran, awk and shell scripts.

It really does irk, though, when 'serious' coders say they feel sorry for me because of what I use now. I feel strongly that I'd much rather avoid getting bogged down with any kind of thing which prevents me from Getting Stuff Done and Making Stuff Work.
09/04/11 @ 12:45
Comment from: philip142au [Member] Email
This is true. Programming was interesting back in 1994 when I was programming Turbo Pascal without many libraries.
I seemed to get a lot done without lots of libraries. Now all the standardization and large numbers of libraries make the API's impossible to learn.

The only way to get something done is to google for example code using that API, as my head-memory isn't large enough or willing enough to learn these API's. Especially knowing that they change and get thrown out quickly, so whatever learning I would do would then not be useful in 5 years time.

I'm working on ways to make it easier again.

09/04/11 @ 18:45
Comment from: hellblazer [Member] Email
I've been programming for, like, 30 years now. And I've got to say this really sounds like whining to the nth power. I mean, it's like a mechanical engineer complaining that things are so complicated that they have to always use a CAD program because things are so complex.

Get a grip. Sure, things can be simplified. Do it! Stop whining and _show_ people the better way. But the reality is that things are always getting more and more complicated. And that takes tools. Very, very sophisticated tools

Simplicity doesn't come from a programming language. It comes from architecture and design and that only comes from a hella lot of experience, practice and some natural talent. Go isn't going to be your own personal Jesus. Neither is Scala, Lisp or Haskell.

Again, stop this incessant whining and just do it. Or do us all a favor and just retire for "Bob's" sake.
09/04/11 @ 19:11
Comment from: tof [Member] Email
I'm having fun today with new languages and technologies. More fun than when I was coding in C 15 years ago :)

Playing with canvas and coffeescript, for exemple.

09/05/11 @ 11:44
Comment from: coffeenerd [Member] Email
I'm getting ready to embark on using Objective-C to communicate with USB connected devices, this just for fun, because of exactly what is stated above. Sure there's still some degree of an API but talking to actual hardware again will hopefully make up for that.

I've been writing a fair bit of Java lately including J2EE and to me it seems your opinion is right on the money and it puts into words what I've been feeling while "programming" these last few years.

I started writing in BASIC when I was a teenager and then moved on to COBOL, FORTRAN, C, and yes even VB, and I'm fairly sure I had more fun with all of them but then the past is good at hiding the bad.

The API that I'm always thankful for these days though is the one that provides for creating the GUI and helping to handle the events it generates; I wouldn't want to still write that code like it was written in the early days of X11.

Thanks for the great article, it made my day.
09/13/11 @ 11:45
Comment from: dgb [Member] Email
A perspective from a guy who received his MS CompSci in 1972, actively programming for 40 yrs.

For me, programming combined math, logic, problem solving, and creativity.

Fun for me was eventaully becoming self employed, having my software sold in a major vertical market, programming provided sucess, independence, and a very good income.

Alas today the combination of endless, unplanned, 'change', plus corporate nano-management, and compartamentalization of duties has sucked out much of the enjoyment.

How many artists continually use a different medium? How many muscians continually play a different instrument? They polish their skills and art form. All too many programmers have been thrown away, driven out, by the current enviornment. Many of these people had skills way above those who 'love to learn.'
09/14/11 @ 09:22
Comment from: jlforrest [Member] Email
As another ex-Britton-Lee person I can say that one thing that makes programming more fun that it might be otherwise is that, other than a few specialized areas, we no longer have to waste time fighting hardware. All that effort you spent, Eric, to make Ingres fit in those early Unix machines (e.g. all those processes) wasn't productive time. Maybe it was a character building experience but it didn't really improve the state of the art in RDMBSs. The world is full of old-farts like us boring the young-farts with our stories of what we did when we didn't have enough memory or CPU cycles.

Maybe the result of the power of our current environments is that we now have to put up with what you describe in your posting, which I agree with too. But, given the choice, I'd go with what we have now.

Jon
12/11/11 @ 06:12
Comment from: Eric Allman [Member] Email
Jon, I agree with you about the hardware, at least mostly. Having (usually) reliable hardware with adequate specs is a good thing. But I also think that this has permitted programmers to get sloppy. It seems like most software is bloated software these days. This isn't merely a matter of aesthetics, although I do appreciate that. But things like memory bandwidth, cache sizes, memory locality, etc. are still critical to performance, at least in some applications.

The "new" operator is not your friend if it's always needed, because memory allocation is still expensive. High performance systems are required to pre-allocate memory to avoid high runtime costs and increase locality. Essentially, "best practice" in OO languages is to defeat most of what they give you. This strikes me as essentially equivalent to the bad old days of limited, flaky hardware. And unlike those days, we software people did it to ourselves.

eric
12/11/11 @ 14:06
Comment from: spudman [Member] Email
I came across the above comments after googling "Programming not fun"... just another day fighting bugs in old crappy bloatware... and this is the games industry... it never used to be like this.... but what is the alternative... the only 'good' code I now write is what I do in my own time for fun .... having been coding for many years, I find that the codebases of companies are typically very flaky, inefficient and old... I wonder sometimes who wrote the early code, as the people I remember working with all those years back would never have produced the kind of rubbish I'm dealing with now. The problem I feel is that, for those of us who enjoy creating clever fast implementations and solving problems, the motivation has died... so we just patch things up and sign them off and pick up the pay cheque... and eventually when we start waking up in the morning feeling that we just can't bother with the trillian lines of gibberish in the codebase... we move on...
02/02/12 @ 03:09
Comment from: dark penguin [Member] Email
@hellblazer, I think he does have a point. I've been doing this since the mid 1980s and I think the biggest change over the years is how the emphasis within the body of knowledge has changed. 25 years ago it was all about writing algorithms because the overarching architectural issues were the domain of someone else--an systems programmer, architect, or what have you. But the understanding of algorithms was something we could easily take from one platform to another.

Now software developers must all be their own architects. This isn't bad in itself, but it's definitely a challenge to keep up. And worst of all is the fate of programmers in many large organizations: the real work of building non-trivial systems has been farmed out to vendors or the engineering department, while the IT department has become increasingly limited to liasing and Tier 2 tasks--and maybe a bit of configuration or trivial data transformations if they're lucky.
03/05/12 @ 12:38
Comment from: pi314etc [Member] Email
The problem I have with programming as it is done now is that it's based more on knowledge of facts or ability to look up facts rather than on thinking. That is so not fun. Programming used to be fun -- like solving puzzles and actually getting paid for it. I need to find a substitute that would be just as stimulating and fun even if it doesn't pay.
07/27/12 @ 16:34
Comment from: Eric Allman [Member] Email
I've been playing with the Arduino platform a bit lately. It feels like a throwback to the old days in a lot of ways --- very close to the hardware, not as many tools in the way, and since the physical world is very much in evidence the problem solving seems to be back, albeit it most of the time because I've done something stupid. I'm not sure if it's something I would call productive, but it has been a lot of fun.
07/27/12 @ 22:46

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